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Similarities between the ecig companies and tobacco companies

rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
The original idea of the ecig was to help people stop smoking traditional cigaretts and the ecig was a means to do that. However it has apparently proved so successful that like the tobacco companies they don't want you to quit altogether. Get off the traditional cigaretts but don't quit the ecig, it is much too profitable - just keep inhaling that nicotine or emulate smoking a real cigarette. Why else for having different color batteries, tips and cartridges? A multitude of ejuice flavors.Just as the tobacco companies hooked us by leading us to believe smoking was cool, so are the ecigs companies today trying to convince us vaping is cool. I've read posts where people say they want more "bling". My point is, with the ecig companies it is about getting you to stop smoking traditional cigaretts but just don't stop vaping. Truth be told, if smoking isn't cool neither is vaping but thats what it has become - cool, more so than a method of getting off traditional cigaretts for many. I welcome any intelligent open minded responses.

Best Answers

  • murphyinsightmurphyinsight Posts: 834Member
    edited February 2012 Accepted Answer
    I would have to agree, I quit smoking but don't plan to stop vaping any time soon.  And yes, its a big money maker, I find myself sucked into wanting all the cool stuff and am spending a pretty penny to do it.  Maybe as much so far as I did on smokes.  At least we have the option to cut down on our nicotine! Or cut it out all together!
  • devanttriodevanttrio Posts: 1,689Member
    Accepted Answer
    For me, I started vaping for the same reason as most people, and that is to quit smoking. Whether I ever give up vaping or not, it is alot less damaging than smoking. I don't plan on vaping forever, but for now it has helped tremendously. I can only speak for myself, but I personally don't glorify vaping. Yes its alot better, yes I want to try different flavors. But as far as the bling, cool looking batteries, bigger batteries etc...its not for me. I just want something right now to keep me away from smoking. I have COPD from smoking and it is in the early stages. I also have chronic bronchitis. The two together paired with smoking is a bad bad thing. So for me, it isn't about the pretties and the cool stuff. It is for my health. Anything that is marketed either word of mouth or through media outlests is going to sell. There is always going to be someone out there who is going to come out with bigger and better means to do something. Vaping included. No doubt it is a money maker, but for me anyway, I am settling for the more basic stuff and will not wrap all my finances up in it. You do have a very valid point, I am most definitely not disputing that. (Hope all that makes sense...I haven't had much coffee this morning lol) Oh and good morning @rockman :)
  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    Accepted Answer
    To be perfectly honest, I love to smoke. I always have, ever since I was a teenager. But  believe the numerous studies that have shown that smoking is harmful. I never began vaping as a means of quitting smoking, or using nicotine altogether. I feel that from what we now know, vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking, and using nicotine.
    The e cig industry provides many options that are attractive, to me, as opposed to smoking traditional cigarettes. I can regulate the amount of nicotine I use, and just as importantly, there are a vast array of flavor options available, that don't exist any longer with traditional cigarettes. Flavored cigarettes, other than menthol, have been outlawed in the U.S. since 2009.
    Since I began vaping, I have also found that it has become more than a pleasurable habit; it has become a hobby. I make my own liquids, for myself, and a few friends. I enjoy cleaning and modding cartomizers, in order to optimize performance. I'm not so much into the "cool" stuff, as I am into the most functionally efficient stuff. All that being said, I'm glad the industry is growing, and plan on continuing to participate in it.
  • puppynursepuppynurse Posts: 1,514V2 Veteran
    Accepted Answer
    I have to agree with rule62 on this one, cause I enjoyed smoking, I just did not like all the bad things that came along with it.  Which is why I switched to vaping, I personally like having the options and different flavors, and different styles of batteries.  I will probably not stop vaping, I have decreased my nicotine level to 6mg and will eventually be down to 0mg but will continue to vape because I enjoy doing it.
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Answers

  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Does the soda company want you to stop drinking soda?
    The video game company want you to stop playing video games?
    The universities want you to stop paying for education (up the wazoo)? 

    List like that goes on forever. In fact, where's the company that is at all interested in profit, but is also very interested in you ceasing to use their product? Show me that company. 

    Rule62, is for me, where its at. You can love smoking and vape too. In fact, you could even like smoking, like vaping and choose to do neither. All 3 times I went cold turkey from smokes, I didn't revert into individual that said 'smoking is bad.' I found benefits in not smoking, but not a need to carry the torch for the anti-smoking crowd. 

    Vaping, like most thing electronics, is cool. Addiction is less cool, but ought to be up to individuals to make informed decisions on what is best for them. As things are set up now, we (the ex smokers) have made it plausible that eCigs could be deemed uncool and something that deserves to be put out of business, since I don't do it anymore, and neither should you. 
  • DebiDebi Posts: 485Member
    Whats your point @rockman? That we should all give up the ecig?
  • MomMom Posts: 2,577V2 Veteran
    edited February 2012

    I'd be a lot more worried about the ecig vendors trying to lure us into staying with a habit with all their bling if it weren't for the fact that there's nothing harmful with ecigs and there isn't one or two big conglomerate companies profitting.  Instead, there are thousands of little companies.  From an economic standpoint, I'm very much in favor of small to medium sized business.  Ecig companies definitely fall into that category.  Like I said, that coupled with the fact that nicotine, in weak doses like we get with e-cigs, isn't harmful and can be helpful in certain circumstances, I don't have any problem with the bling at all.  I prefer stanless steel or black - no bling, but that's my preference.  If others like pink, purple, or flaming skulls, why would it bother someone else?  I think there's an underlying issue that needs to be addressed by people who feel the need to control other people's lives.

  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Amen!
  • joshpajoshpa Posts: 130Member
    We thank the ecig industry for giving us a safer and possibly less expensive way to do something that has become a part of our lives that we enjoy....smoking
  • DennisRichardsDennisRichards Posts: 2,361V2 Veteran ✭✭
    Yes, before it was an addiction that I was stuggling with, now it's something I can actually enjoy. Thanks V2!
  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    The only reason cigarette companies print warnings on the packages aout the dangers of smoking, is because they are required to. Tobacco companies don't REALLY want anyone to stop buying their products. Tobacco companies would willingly sell their products to 10 year olds, if they weren't prevented from doing so.
    E cig companies aren't required to offer any such warnings. E cig companies aren't operating under the false pretense that they offer a product, but need to warn you not to buy it.
  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned

    Well the first four responses were intelligent and open minded, better than none I guess.

    murphyinsight -  devanttrio - rule 62 (1st respones) and puppynurse thank you!

  • MomMom Posts: 2,577V2 Veteran
    edited February 2012
      :))
  • DennisRichardsDennisRichards Posts: 2,361V2 Veteran ✭✭
    Right back at cha Phil.
  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Wish I could say the OP was intelligent or open minded, but oh well. 

    Zing zing. 
  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    An open forum but still one that a handful of people continue to try to control. If you don't like the question/disscusion you try to dismiss as the person being uninformed, if you don't understand the question/discussion - then you attack and reply with nonsense. My suggestion for those people - simply ignore my questions/dissusions. I'm not here to upset you but I'm also not going to stop posting questions/disscusions simply because in your mind you find it negative or unable to grasp what exactly what the question/disscusion is and thus are unable to articulate your thoughts.
  • ButtonpusherButtonpusher Posts: 67Member
    This thread is a moot point. ANY company wants you to continue using their product/service. Ecig companies offer different flavors and colors because their consumers want them and buy them, not some grand scheme to lure us into buying more. Any smart business would offer products their customers want.

    Saying tobacco and ecig companies are alike because they want to keep customers is like saying they are alike because they both have office chairs or they both use the phone. Business is business. 

    Now if you are inferring that ecig companies (like big tobacco) have done studies about what additives they can add to their products to keep people hooked, know their product kills people, but hides the information for decades and used that information to  target minors, that's a whole different accusation. 
  • ButtonpusherButtonpusher Posts: 67Member
    edited February 2012
    @rockman


    "If you don't like the question/disscusion you try to dismiss as the person being uninformed, if you don't understand the question/discussion - then you attack and reply with nonsense." 

    Look who's calling the kettle black. Just like you said...this is an open forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yet you continue to pick and choose only the ones who agree with your rendition of the question. Hmmm. 

  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt"
  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    Actually buttonpusher the first four responses didn't agree with me they simply offered and intelligent opinion, I'm sorry this was over your head
  • ButtonpusherButtonpusher Posts: 67Member
    You should follow your own advice. I have no doubts. 
  • jnestejneste Posts: 2,541V2 Veteran
    I am wondering something here rockman. You know very well that your responses are going to provoke people to lash bash at you. Is this something you enjoy doing? Your original comment in this discussion was very straightforward and actually a good topic for a discussion. Then you shoot back with "Well the first four responses were intelligent and open minded, better than none I guess." Did you think that was not going to provoke people to lash out?

    You remind me very much of my mother. She is not happy unless there is some sort of drama going on in here life that she can feed off of. If you come on here telling people that they can buy products cheaper on other sites and tell others that they are basically uninformed idiots, why do you come on this forum?
  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    @rockman, you're the one that went to place of "intelligence" and "open mindedness" as a possible dig. OP, is stating this: "My point is, with the ecig companies it is about getting you to stop smoking traditional cigaretts but just don't stop vaping. Truth be told, if smoking isn't cool neither is vaping but thats what it has become - cool, more so than a method of getting off traditional cigaretts for many. I welcome any intelligent open minded responses."

    And I find that not so intelligent when you are not able to show another company, in it for profit, that does the thing you are making a point about. And plenty of companies have add on accessories to either promote or aid in the use of their product. For you, that means 'trying to be cool' and for a person in business, that may be desired effect, but profit is what drives that. With your open and intelligent mind, show me a successful company weaning its customers off their product. Show me a successful and 'cool' company that isn't promoting umpteen accessories to improve upon their existing product. 

    Again, when you're open minded and intelligent enough to respond to the assertions that squarely address OP, do let us know. 

  • emelesteemeleste Posts: 5,293V2 Veteran ✭✭
    I'm pretty sure that most responsible personal vaporizer vendors make a point of stressing that their product has not been proven to be a smoking cessation method, and indeed they are not marketed to be a smoking cessation method.  The products are intended as an "alternative" to be used in addition to smoking or exclusively and are not intended for anyone who is not already addicted to nicotine.  They also stress that sales to minors (under 18) are prohibited.

    At least the ones I've seen.  

    The people who view the personal vaporizer as a "smoking cessation method" do so that their own risk and responsibility.

    At that rate then...why wouldn't an e-cigarette vendor wish to continue to sell products and have good profits?  Why else would they be in business?  If customers want "bling" or fancy batteries and accessories, then they are happy to oblige.  They don't claim their products will help people quit smoking and they discourage use by minors.  They are selling an "alternative" to smoking that is all.  It's a product.  Period.  
  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    jneste, no I didn't expect to receive such negative responses and responded in kind and for that I was wrong, I should not have stooped to their level. Tell how I can delete this topic, obviously not something everyone on here can handle. 
  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    emeleste the point most of the people missed, is the ecig came out as a way of getting off traditional cigaretts, yes they can not promote as a smoking cessation yet we all know thats what the ecig was originally intennded for. It became so popular almost with a cult following that the industry developed products to ensure people would continue using the ecig. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it we are all free to make our own choices. The first four responses were answered a long those lines. Some just like smoking, some like the gadgets, some use to stop completely. That was the kind of input I was hoping to read. Sadly most on here miss the point. Judging by the responses it also validated my point there is a core group on this forum - should you say anything they preceive as neagative they come at you with a vengence, I simply responded in kind. I will not be bullied.
  • emelesteemeleste Posts: 5,293V2 Veteran ✭✭
    Well...I figger I loved to smoke.  I just knew it wasn't good for me. I didn't WANT to quit, but was tired of being a "second class citizen" and feeling like I was substandard or something.  But I loved smoking.   And I love gadgets.  

    So vaping filled the bill for me rather perfectly!!!  
  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Again, you are stating that the original point of ecigs was to cease smoking, and then profit was made and so they did what they could to capitalize on those profits. Now, you add on "I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it" when in OP it states, "Truth be told, if smoking isn't cool neither is vaping but thats what it has become - cool, more so than a method of getting off traditional cigaretts for many."

    As if a product, once in the mass market, isn't going to have any other use, other than what it was originally intended for. I can name several products that started as something simple, something with a primary purpose, but once caught on in mainstream, became about much more than that simple, original use. 

    Apparently, you want to make a point you think is spot on and has no room for argument/disagreement, but when another point is put forth, it is judged as "unintelligent" and "not open minded." And when someone addresses that with you, suddenly you are the one being bullied and stooping to that level, when thread shows, you initiated that line of attack. 

    The ironic thing here is, I don't have any bling, and thus far very little desire for it. Some, but very little. The cool factor comes in because eCigs can be done anywhere. It starts there at least. I feel 'cool' being able to vape in a local restaurant, and don't need bling to remind me just how cool that is. But, just like everyone thinks they need accessories for iphones, ipads, kindles, cars, tv's, and so on and so forth, I can understand why there is a market for that stuff in eCig world. That isn't my cup of tea, but it is how humans tend to use all products, and I still feel open to considering products that don't do that. 

    I too don't appreciate bullying on forums, hence the reason I generally go straight to the point, rather than put in flippant remarks about intelligence. But sometimes, I'll stoop to that level. Usually for the fun of it. 
  • DennisRichardsDennisRichards Posts: 2,361V2 Veteran ✭✭
    edited February 2012
    My first response was not a negative one... It was more along the lines of being grateful that e cigs exist, was not bashing anyone, it looks to me like someone is just trying to stir up stuff, they aren't getting the responses they want, so they take it into their own hands to stir it, then they stand back and play the victim. I'm ok with how rock feels, he's entitled to his opinion, .I'm not interested in being drawn into your circle of b.s. Rock, but I don't feel like I should have to defend what I said or be labeled a bully
  • MomMom Posts: 2,577V2 Veteran

    Actually, @rockman, you are under a mistaken perception that ecigs were developed as a smoking cessation aid.  They weren't. They were developed by a man in China as a safer alternative to smoking for for his father.  He was successful.

  • emelesteemeleste Posts: 5,293V2 Veteran ✭✭
    That's what I understood too, @Mom !
  • hoosierhoosier Posts: 3,358V2 Veteran
    His name is Hon Lik, Chairman of Ruyan Holdings/Ruyan America.
  • LeahKLeahK Posts: 30Member
    When the idea first came out it was to simply replace burning tobacco and paper and provide a safe way to smoke, It is an alternative to smoking, not a smoking cessation device.

     I never even considered using electronic cigs as a means to stop smoking--I was just really tired of coughing and everyone else telling me how I was killing myself.

    Can it be used to stop smoking? Well, YES--if the user wants that to be the purpose. It is all about the purpose that we began with and for some of us, it may well be to eventually stop, but for others like me, who LOVES to smoke --or vape :)--it is an alternative that keeps me from smelling like an ashtray.



  • hoosierhoosier Posts: 3,358V2 Veteran
    Agreed Leah.  I also chose it as an alternative to smoking.  Never had any intention of quitting my nicotine habit, this was just another delivery method which I believe to be safer than cigarettes.
  • emelesteemeleste Posts: 5,293V2 Veteran ✭✭
    Which is the same thing I said...I loved smoking.  I didn't WANT to quit.  This offers a better solution (alternative) and has the added perk of being a gadget, too! 
  • ginazginaz Posts: 663V2 Veteran
    I enjoyed smoking and I enjoy vaping even more. What I pay to any ecig/liquid company is far less than I paid for analogs. Yeah they've got me hooked but I'm loving it!
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited February 2012
    Ok First I like to smoke, and still do. 
    It has cut my smoking drastically and will eventually allow me to stop.
    If a company offers a product that is  enticing they sell it. If they have a product that is functional, they sell it. It's called marketing and profit. It's capitalism at it's best and multiple choices are a wonderful thing. Why would I care if their intent is profit, if the product is good?
    Go for it.
    Cigs offer nothing fancy. In the past they had beautiful models and basic tobacco flavors. If you wanted something exclusive like Clove or other flavors you had to search for it..
    E-cigs are marketed different and I see little comparison to todays cig marketing. 

    One thing I've never let myself fall victim to is marketing. If I think a product is something I might like, I'll research it and not fall for the fancy happy girls selling wares, or flashy paint schemes that make a Ford Focus look like a hot car (I mean, Come On!) 
    So if you or others want more "bling and the likes, I could care less, but it is not my draw to a product. It has to perform, like the cars I buy and have redone. 

    I don't see cigs as dangerous as claimed, but also am not a fool to the dangers. I think they are greatly exaggerated . Likewise there are a lot of people out there with 30-40-50%+ body fat headed for the heart attack and if smokers as well, smoking gets blamed.

    But my purpose for even posting here is WHO CARES if a product is marketed as a alternative to cigarettes?
    WHO CARES if they profit?
    WHY THE OFFENSE to Capitalism?
    WHAT HARM is there in this product...bling or not! 
  • RoadRunnerRoadRunner Posts: 688Member

    There are similarities between tobacco companies and all companies when it comes to making a profit. This would include juice and ecig companies. However one major difference, especially between big tobacco and ecigs is that big tobacco makes a product that is known to he hazardous to their customers. Ecig companies believe their product is helping people.

  • rockmanrockman Posts: 81Banned
    Jman, DennisRichards, mom you guys continue to prove my point about the core group of people on here who think they not it all are closed minded and it is either their way or no way. seems everyone else offered their opinion which I was hoping for but you three are know it alls without knowing anything. You remind me of the very old public service commercial "A mind, it is a terrible thing to waste". How bout we just end this going back and forth now. 
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Rockman
    You have issues with yourself and seek to have fun in cutting others opinions down.
    1) What makes your opinion superior?
    2) Why should we care?

  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    I enjoy a good debate. But whenever it degrades into attacking an opponent's credibility or intelligence for holding an opposing point of view, the discussion becomes more about the person than the subject at hand. That's when I usually tap out.
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    It needs called out on occasion. 
    I've heard too much degrading here.
    I'm out as well.


  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    I wish to express my apologies for earlier post (click here) that I could edit out, but will let it stand. It certainly escalates the drama that is this thread, and is just me stooping to level of 'don't bully me or I'll bully back.' Not my finest hour on this forum and my apologies, especially to rockman, who up to this thread I felt was someone I'd call 'friend.' I really felt, even with that post, I was sticking to points up for discussion, but we obviously have gotten sidetracked on this thread, and I realize I contributed to that. 
  • murphyinsightmurphyinsight Posts: 834Member
    I'm sorry to see the negativity here.  I hope everyone thinks things through before posting, and its very nice to see an apology.
  • Jesme4362Jesme4362 Posts: 2Member
    I don't care that they are making money off me. It's healthier and works .i smoked a analog,it was nasty,to me.so e cigs are the way to go. Smart for them to make them and prices will come down as demand goes up n more people get in it .
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Jesme.
    Proper attitude. 
    It's called Capitalism. If the manufacturers/retailers make a product that is desirable,useful, and at a price point that works, God bless that company. Then if 20+ others start marketing similar products, and give us options, at competitive pricing? That's Capitalism at it's finest.
    You don't have to buy from any of them or you can sample what ever you feel like.  When choices are available, That's What It's About!
    Eliminate choices, and control the market, prices will rise and options evaporate (sound like Obama care?).

    Where I disagree with you is I feel if we don't stand up for our rights. these things will eventually be taxed and controlled thru Gov't interference. Thus raising the price and dissolving options.

  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Eliminate choices, control the market, increase pricing - sounds like Big Insurance. 


  • VladimerVladimer Posts: 9Member
    commenting on the "Bling/Cool Factor" of eCigs and anything in general.

    Bling/Cool Factor seems to be desired by folks who want to be "seen" by others doing something unique and potentially attractive by others.  They want to be perceived as attractive, smart, and "cool".

    If no one sees your bling, what is the point?

    This is definitely a market of its own that I'm speculating is comprised largelyby the 20-40 year age group. 

    I'm in the over 50 age group (market) and Bling/Cool isn't a factor in my buying decisions - value for my $ is the chief decision factor. 

    When I was younger and spending much more time "out socializing", the bling/cool factor was something I desired ... if I recall I think that my first cell phone was $500+ and I was the one of the first consumers - same thing for my first VHS HI FI video cassette recorder/player in the 80s.

    Today I don't care as much about bling/cool as I don't regularly have a group of folks strolling by my Lazy Boy in my living room that I feel the need to attract or impress with eCigs or hot off the press gadgetry.

    So, two separate markets/demands are being met by a variety of products - capitalism at its best.
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Jman.
    Who's fault is that? The Gov't won't allow the sellers to cross state lines to sell ! Eliminates competition.

    Vlad
    Same here on bling, but much of what I do is to supply that to others., cept I was never out to impress anyone but myself. 
    Now when it comes to cars, I want something to perform and I like hanging out with motorheads, but it is to gain knowledge to make what I do better..still not to impress. They can take or leave my choices. 
    In my house, well I have a cheap/small one compared to what i design and sell, but being an architect, I spent long hours restoring it to something you won't normally see. Extremely ultra contemporary, yet a rustic touch.
    Music? I'm a heavy duty audiophile and decign/build the speakers, and then need massive clean power to run em.
    And I'm currently in the furniture building phase, (since architecture is a dead  field, and) I like to eat.

    So bling sells, and I like quality wether it Blings or not.

     
  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    @Earthpig - Consumers, like you and me, are responsible for adopting a quasi-socialist system that was bound to essentially break the bank over time. As long as that is around, I'm all for government getting in the game. Get rid of insurance and let free market between doctor and patient do it's work. Then I'll agree on limited government in health care. 
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