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Where You Can't.

WhoWantstoKnowWhoWantstoKnow Posts: 315Member
I know many of us here like to talk about how great it is for all the places we can vape compared to where we could smoke. Here is one for you. How many  places have you found that won't let you vape?


I have only had one a place called Eat'N'Park some dive, dirt ball, generic, all day breakfast diner. They are part of a big chain however so it was too be expected. After all big chain business have upper management that sits in an office several states away and are usually completely ignorant of the real world. 

Local small owned businesses are always better about it. Hell when winter is really bad the bar I frequent lets people smoke in a small room on the top floor away from others. The cops tried to fine them, he just keeps his check book with him and tells us to keep out of the cold. Now I can vape and not cost this kind person money(even if you tried to go outside he would push you to go upstairs if it was really cold).

Comments

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  • Ka0sKa0s Posts: 1,220Member
    Notrab13... your experience has been the same as mine. I even vaped in the courthouse while talking to a police officer. LOL
  • WhoWantstoKnowWhoWantstoKnow Posts: 315Member
    Well so far it's only one and my mistake was asking first. I think next time I will just do it and see what happens.
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Vaped in Village hall while I was meeting the new Police Chief.
    Vaped in Kohl's Womens Clothing dep't waiting on the wife.(ok I did it stealth there)
    Vaped in the Shopping Malls.
    Vaped in restaurants.
    Vaped in my parents home (and they are against smoking)
    Vaped in everywhere imaginable , just to push the limits and see what is doable.
    NEVER Vaped in front of Children unless they come up on me. Then I chill a little.

    Protect the right. 
    Fight for it.
    Get vocal and active in org's standing up for you.
  • WhoWantstoKnowWhoWantstoKnow Posts: 315Member
    edited March 2011
    If I had been alone I would have said something, but I was with 5 friends one of whom has sever anxiety issues and I know even a point to point discussion would have bothered her. 

    I agree with you on the kids part. Even as a smoker my cig went out of view and I wafted the smoke away if I saw people with kids walking by and there was no place to step away from them.
  • VaperLoverVaperLover Posts: 491Member
    I haven't had an issue yet except at my work place. I work in a large corporate office and I'm trying to force the issue there in an attempt to educate and gain acceptance. Jury's still out on that one.....
  • LeifLeif Posts: 120Member

    WWTK, you may be onto something. Vaping is one of those things where it's much easier asking for forgiveness than permission. No need to make a big show about it -- be discrete, and if someone questions you, "of course I'm not smoking, I would never do that, I know that's not allowed".

    It also helps to NOT have a white battery with red tip.. Blue LED is probably better.

  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Actually I am not an apologist or a discrete vaper. I don't ask for either, Leif.

    We were (are) stepped on hard as smokers. This isn't a "get even" thing (except on the taxation front), but I'm not going to closet vape these things. It also isn't a "show off" thing either.
    I only have 4 white batteries, out of 11, and I rarely use the white ones, but not because of what others might suspect. I just like the silver and black look, personally.

    Discrete gets us "outlawed again", and doesn't get the info out there. It is in process now, and it's WAR! 
    Unless we all get proactive as well as get the word out, we will be outlawed, and either forced back on the real cigs again or buying and mixing in black market and afraid of prosecution for ownership..
  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    I would love to get my hands on the pamphlet people are talking about.  I can only educate by word of mouth and it helps if you can have something that backs you up. :)
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Hey... A pamphlet?
    Who's talking about it"
    I'd reprint a 1000 or so, if it's worth while.

    Hmmmm, or maybe we can make one....hmmmm.

    Geeky. Let me know what you know. PM me if you have more....ok?
    I'll get on ECF and find out who knows of this and get contact info, if I can get a little more info to go on.

    (wringing my hands)
  • vwfixvwfix Posts: 42Member
    Something interesting I noticed, i got my order from vapor4life yesterday and it came with like 20 of their business cards.
    Now the cool part is on the back of each car it explains how vaping is not smoking in great detail and does not apply to same laws as smoking.


  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    @Earthpig I do not have any, but I remember somebody saying something like they gave some to their doctor.  I'll PM you the forum link when I find it. :) 
  • CarolGCarolG Posts: 562Member
    GeekyGirl, why don't you post it here so everybody can get it. That would be great.
  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    @CarolG I do not have any flyers, but I saw somebody post that they had given or their doctor had some pamphlets in their office.  I will happily post the forum link here though. :)
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    And again.... maybe we can make one....
    HMMMMmmmm m m m !!
  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    We could Earthpig . . . I can get some ideas and maybe a sample one next weekend or so . . . people can PM or post links to the creditable sources I can use for it and that will help out a LOT.  ;-)
  • goin4nosmokegoin4nosmoke Posts: 1,672Member
    dennys rest. wouldnt let me vape  no biggy  i also, like when i smoked, and consious of who is around me when i vape and i keep away from kids, they may see it as a cig,,,,,and since i started sooo young i know the health risk and also the lure to smoking even if that person seeing you vaping is a child    i do vape around my son, but he knows what it is about and he knows and see's how hard it is to quit and he see's my vaping almost like medicine in a way,( he also witnessed my hubbys quitting 5 yrs this month,,,so he has the idea to not smoke, phew),,,i told him yes vaping is better then smoking but its still a habit that he would want not to have,,,,,
  • Ka0sKa0s Posts: 1,220Member
    I have been happily vaping everywhere. The most I have gotten is people coming up to me to ask if it is an e-cig, then they go on to ask if it helped me stop smoking and a whole host of questions. Usually they get my info and I direct them towards products I have used and have enjoyed. I even get non-smokers come up to me and ask about it because they know a smoker who may benefit from it. Here in Houston it seems the word is out and people usually have an understanding of what it is already. :)
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member
    I may be in the minority here but I really don't vape anywhere where they don't allow smoking analogs. I do vape in the car and in the house now but I really never had a problem waiting in public places to begin with. I honestly just don't want the attention. I'm much more impressed with the healthier aspects of vaping than fighting for smoker's rights I guess.
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Pepper
    You won't have the ability if the FDA has it's way.
    Without getting the public informed we are doomed to what happened to us before, except worse....these WILL be pulled from the marketplace, and you won't be vaping indoors or in your car anymore.

    How's that for incentive?
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member
    I don't think the FDA is going to get the authority to regulate e cigs. They are being marketed as an alternative to smoking. If it is ever looked at as a smoking cessation device there may be cause for concern. Otherwise it would be very difficult to propose a ban on e cigs without also proposing one on analogs. Don't see no reason to fear boogeymen this early on. I prefer not to flaunt e cigs when I'm in a bank or grocery shopping. Just as easy for me to wait until I'm out of the building. I also don't think playing a game of "Gotcha!" with the public with e cigs helps the cause. 
  • StorytellerStoryteller Posts: 563Member

    Pepperjack. are you aware that FDA has already been in court 4 times on banning e-cigs? They have lost the first battle but they havnt fired all thier salvos yet. Be aware, they are working hard to control e-cigs

     

  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Actually in court, they actually took a win in control of Nicotine. They were shot down on the "drug delivery device" scenario.
    Next is to see what they attempt to do with it. Ban the fluid?

    Don't forget. Tobacco companies have money and power.
    E-cig mfgr's don't.   The battle (again) is lost on the fluids and control over them, and FDA just hasn't exercised it's win yet.
  • Ka0sKa0s Posts: 1,220Member
    EP... I agree... People need to understand what it is so if they make a move people can stand up and go WTF!? 

    Just keep in mind that our country is quickly becoming an authoritarian police state where the state wishes to be the parent to everyone. I am an adult. I will do as I please when and where I please so long as it harms no others. Educate the ignorant and let's regain our freedom. 
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    FDA isn't done by far. They will be taking their winnings (nicotine control) and entering in another hand. They took a loss in the one hand  (drug delivery device), but not insurmountable, and the house (big pharma) is backing their next play. The house has money. 

    Yeah, some folks yesterday here on the site touched on a concept of "hand out flyers" we could carry with us and give away when questioned. What an opportunity to discuss our rights getting stepped on. I'm considering putting one together.
    We didn't get stepped on before with cigs. We got stomped, kicked, spat on, beaten, cussed out, and throw out in the back alley to bleed.. All the time we were (and many are) paying taxes at 10x the cost of the product and thrown out in the heat and cold, while no one walked by to help. They crossed the street, and continued on.

    Want that again?
    No?
    Get Proactive !!
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member

    I really think you guys are blowing certain aspects of this out of proportion. Yes, the FDA wants to regulate E -cigs. Yes, the tobacco and pharmacutical industries are not crazy over the idea of their profit margins taking a hit. How do you figure they are "backing their next play?" Are you suggesting they are helping the FDA out finanically? Propaganda wise? What are the specifics behind the conspiracy you believe is at foot?

    Analog cigarette smoking did take it on the chin. However cigarette smoking was a severe health hazard for the smoker as well as the general public. The FDA does not have that mantra to fall behind in this instance. Any real studies that the FDA perform are going to show that e-cigs are indeed a safer alternative. It seems that by proactive you just want to play the gotcha game of vaping in public to ensure you are challenged by others. I just think that makes us look smug. Many of the places that I hear people getting excited about vaping in also do not allow food or beverages. People do not feel the need to pass out flyers in these places, they just follow the wishes of the shop owner/ store policy or what have you. 

    E-cigs do indeed have a battle in front of them. One that I do indeed have a vested interest in. I just don't think walking in a daycare, grocery store, movie theater and blowing clouds of vapor and handing out cards and flyers is the way to go. The FDA seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in the courtrooms and in the court of public opinion regarding e -cigs. V2 is incredibly unique in that they actually list what ingredients are contained in their carts. That is a good start. That is being proactive. If more e cig companies would get on board with that policy it would do much more than any flyer could ever dream to. 

          

  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member

    Earthpig,

    None of the above is not saying you do not have a valid argument. I hope we are just "kicking it around" a bit here and this does not turn ugly. lol.

  • WhoWantstoKnowWhoWantstoKnow Posts: 315Member
    Pepper I can see your point. If we can vape in public it does not meant that we should. Because it looks so much like a cig we could easily be given the same rap as cigs. Even without putting other people at risk. I do not vape when there are too many other people close by, because the vapor cloud can still go in their face. It's not harmful, but it's still rude. I don't vape around kids and I don't try and vape in places that even if smoking was allowed would be wrong. 

    Now if there are few people around sure I will vape wherever I please. Not because it should be hidden, but because there is no one to be bothered by it. I also vape in places that the ownership has approved of it, it puts the control of the situation in the owners hands as it should be. We should be free to vape where we want, but we have to be considerate about who and where we vape.

    Earthpig is correct about the FDA doing everything it can to get e-cigs banned or at the very least total control over them so they can pas it on to their buddies in big drugs. The FDA has people with past and current ties in the industry and it's in their best personal financial interest to get e-cigs off the market or in their hands and only their hands. That would make them harder to obtain, more expensive, and instead of the quality and variety we see today they would be generic and quality would drop like a stone.

    We do have to be seen and we do have to be known. We have to make a stand to keep this from happening. Write, call and share information. Get the truth out there and get active for the cause. We have to do it and we have to do it NOW. Even if it is not as bad as EP suggest what could it hurt to do this? Would you prefer to try and fight for this after the fact if EP is right?
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member
    No, not after WWTK. But unfortunately to really educate people that it is anything other than "kinda better" there have to be neutral studies done. What is the truth so far? That they do not contain the same amount of carcinogens of an analog? Sure. They do not stink like analogs? You bet.  That is all we really have to go on. Personally that is enough for me. However, nobody is really getting behind or againist them other than the companies with something to lose or gain. The medical community (as a whole) seem to be sitting this one out for the time being. And those are going to be the ones that really lift or sink e cigs. Natually they can't take one side or another right now. They would probably hop right on board the smoking cessation side but e cigs can't go that route because of the FDA. And they would be hesitant to endorse a smoking alternative because that is just trading one addiction for another. We need studies done. Real studies. Hell, for all we know they may discover prolonged PG exposure might make you sprout wings or grow a third eye. Kidding of course, but mobs of ex smokers are not really going to educate anyone except other smokers. I can only offer my personal testimony that I quite literally feel that I owe V2 for extending my life and that it has effectively aided me in quitting smoking where nothing else ever came close. That whole "E cigs got antifreeze in em!" shows that we need more scientific intervention than a grassroots PR movement. That is why (I'll repeat it all day) V2 is in a better position than any other company out there IMO. Want to know what's in a V2 Red? Listed on the website. How about V4L's "WOW Blueberry Cobbler Cream Surprise?" Beats me. Could you educate someone on that?   
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member
    edited March 2011
    I also do not think it really help E-cigs argument (at the moment) to have flavors other than traditional tobacco flavors. That said if you'll excuse me I gotta take a few puffs off my last coffee cart! 
  • StorytellerStoryteller Posts: 563Member
    edited March 2011

    V2 is the only company I know of that is actually working on FDA approval for thier product to be considered a smoking cessation device and to be regulated just like the patch, gum etc. That is why you see the complete breakdown of thier flavors.
     
    IMHO I personally do not see the FDA being able to regulate anything but the Nicotine ingrediant in our product. But with that said what good is the product without nicotine. I am sure this well be eventually tested in courts all the way to the supreme court. But unless thier is an educated populous out there, there will be no support for the e-cig.
    The AMA and several other medical organizations have publically spoken against the e-cig and have supported the FDA.
    The biggest lobbyist and financial supporter of the tobacco legislation currently being proposed is PHILLIP MORRIS.

    So again IMHO there will be a fight in the future. And it all depends on the people to speak up, or we loose the battle of ingnorance of the masses.

    I am not a supporter of thow it in peoples faces and then try to swing them over. But I do beleive we need to educate at every opportunity we can. Most of the greatest things that have happend here in teh United States has started at a grass movement level.

    It is time that the American people stop being complacent and accepting what the feds hand them because they feel they cant fight the fight.  We can and we should stand up for our rights.

  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Pepper.
    Nope.
    I don't take this as personal, so no fears/concerns there. Ok? We learn from one another....or not.
    Your points are well founded. It to me right now is a battle for rights. cigs or e-cigs. On the e-cig front, the regulation side will come at us fast and furious (from a relative to cig timeline) In 2 to 5 years the whole thing might unravel. Can I prove it? No.

    Who funds this? Am I a conspiracy type? No I am far from it. We just suspended a battle in Illinois. When I went back to dig on Senator Terry Link (the bills sponsor to outlaw here), I find pharma contributions and FDA links. Imagine that.. Now thats just one example but it triggers a "look see" attitude, and guarantees are when you look, you get not only false info, but twisted financial ties.
    Always Follow The Money!

    You want studies on safety?  Unbiased? Use the FDA's own. It's biased against.. Other than a Nitrosiamine (sp) in nicotine as a possible cancer causing agent (stress possible, since in cigs it has not been confirmed) at 100-1000x less than e-cigs, and equal to pharma inhalers, gum in concentrations, there is only the one tainted N-Joy carto with real antifreeze, also (not disclosed) at a miniscule and harmless level.  OR      FDA has nothing!!
    I will give kudo's for FDA finding that antifreeze carto. It pains me to do so, but they deserve that one for their effort, even if blown out of proportion. 
    But The FDA Has Nothing!

    I personally like the Ruyan study, but it qualifies as biased towards e-cigs. Also we have info from the Boston School of Medicine (hope that was correct. going from memory here). Also studies on 2nd hand vapor are being done now. 
    The Info Is There!

    Back to timeline.
    If we don't (a) get the word out, and (b) get numbers of people on e-cigs to make the FDA's battle a tougher fight, we stand a good chance of loosing another right shoved down our throats by a gov't entity.

    Tobacco has been attacked wether rightly or not doesn't matter. It is a legal product, (harm or not) just like the fat kids walking into McDonalds and saying "Supersize Me!" If the McD burger went from $1.00 to $10.00 due to tax like cigs, would there be an uproar? Obesity and it;s side diseases, as surpassing tobacco for harm in this country.
    Fair is fair, right?
    The fat child breathing on me won't hurt. I guess thats an upside.

    Tobacco has been the whipping boy. Alcohol not far behind. Both legal and both a personal choice.
    I guess I'm tired of Gov't thinking they are my Momma. My Momma is offended as well.

    So if they go to drastic measures it triggers us to do the same. Apathy gets us stomped on....again.
    So getting flyers out, talking to others and semi discretely vaping in public to me is mandatory. I've
    never had a establishment ever refuse me the opportunity to Vape. If they do, I politely ask to talk to the owner, and tell them I will not be returning and will get the word out to others who do same. Usually (from what I here) it s some flunky manager x-smoker who has issues. Rarely the ownership.
    All questions I have ever received in public have thus far been positive. I take advantage to inform when the questions are asked. I'm also discrete around kids.

    As far as flavors? I don't see the need for regulating them, but those that know me, realize if there is harm, it genera;ly is flavor oriented. I'm a skeptic on flavors. Doesn't mean they need Momma saying "NO!", however. 

      
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Story 
    JC is doing the same and has their facility ready for FDA. Their setup is designed to pharma standards.

    Nicotine in e-cigs can be pulled. It basically would cripple or black market the e-cig industry. Good way to slow it down, so Pharma can recoup and make money on em, eh?

    The equipment is a vaporizer. Can't regulate a vaporizer. If we inhale 0%nic, the unit doesn't drug deliver.  The FDA won the right to go after Tobacco based nicotine in these. It' will most likely be their next attack. 
    I'm considering buying bulk nicotine for storage. It keeps many years, and in fact they are unsure how long it does keep, when kept air tight. 
  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member

    Which once again brings about the question: What exactly can e cig users educate people about? All we have are a bunch of personal testimonies really. I can not tell anyone that there are no risks involved with e cigs. Not with any certainty at least. Neither can you. Neither can the FDA at this point. We can say that it is better for us personally than analogs given the information we have access to right now. Nobody in a position to dictate any policies is going to "speak up" for e cigs with all of the potential unknowns at the moment. If V2 is actually trying to gain FDA approval, kudos to them. But as far as education we as users have the various websites that educate you while trying to sell the product and various users who can educate you on how to mix various forms of e juice.

    The toughest fight for e cig users initially is going to be the various flavorings out there I think. That is a tough sale and seems to be one of the louder arguments opponents are rallying too right now.

    But out of curiousity what are we as users qualified to educate on in regards to e cigs?

     

        

  • PepperjackPepperjack Posts: 115Member
    Earthpig,
    VERY good points that I'll be addressing later. I gotta get ready to go do some stuff but you do deserve a response to a very informative post. Talk to you soon.
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Pepper thanks.
    No harm no foul....wait I like ducks!!!
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Pepper 
    Our qualifications are as users, and with informative well thought out, truthful  flyers, those who are not well versed in the inner workings and chemistry can at least have some bare bones info to disperse.
    80% of those who vape, don't even know the contents of the vapor. They just know it's less harmful.
    Number vary on the harm reduction, based on what they did smoke prior.

    100 to 1000X safer on the nic level and overall 1400x safer than cigs (which can be disputed, but by how much,,,really?).
    I mean...I'll settle for 100X safer....1400x? I'm very good with that but don't need it.
  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    I was one of the ones that were talking about flyers and my whole point for the flyers was informative, something to back up what I said with internet links to creditable sources.

    The forum post I was talking about was posted by EP on 3/17 and here is the link: http://www.v2forum.com/discussion/888/just-read-this..../#Item_21.

    EP states "Never have I run into a doctor who when the ingredients were thoroughly explained , that didn't think these were an excellent idea.
    I have one Pulmonary Surgeon endorsing these, my own Holistic Doctor, (who is a skeptic on anything ingested) and my family Doctor who loves the concept.....Difference here is these doctors aren't ""Bought Off""  The Pul Surgeon came in with his trackeotomy  patient and directed him to purchase a kit for the trak's girlfriend. He then took a handfull of flyers for other patients."
  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    Yeah, Those flyers were a sales brocure for product but not info in regards to issues around them.
    Thanks Geeky.
    I'm considering putting something together. I have my son (a good graphics artist) thinking of a layout. Tri-fold flyer. Someone needs to author the info. It might be me or a few other trusted folks I might enlist.

    Just thinkin at this point.
  • GeekyGirlGeekyGirl Posts: 837Member
    @EP No problem, I had remember reading your post and thought to myself that it would be great to have on hand for those who see me vaporing and are curious.  I know a quite a few smokers and some are interested, others who are not, at least one that tried it and had problems.  I would love to sing V2 praises, but I am holding out until some of the issues are ironed out.   ;-)
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